Judge: You say “in the usual way”. Had you been accustomed to this sort of thing before?

Albert Ormesher: Not materialization before, but I have been a Spiritualist for forty-five years, and I have seen all phenomena. Albert said, “I am bringing through to you, Mr. Ormesher, your mother”. He said, “She tells me that you were only a boy of eight when she left you”. I said, “That is so”. Then he said, “After she comes, your sister is coming. I believe she only died about four years ago”. .That is correct. My mother came through and she spoke to me.

Defense Attorney 2: How near were you to your mother?

Albert Ormesher: Oh, about four feet. I was in the first row.

Defense attorney: How light was it?

Albert Ormesher: There was a good red light. I wrote an account of it to The Two Worlds at the time, but I want to cut it short. You could see the pictures on the walls. We conversed one with another.

Defense attorney: What about your mother’s features?

Albert Ormesher: Oh, correct, what I remember. I was only eight, you see. She told me of things I did when I was a boy.

Defense attorney: Did you recognize the voice?

Albert Ormesher: Oh, I did, yes, and at the same time I should mention this because it is in the article I wrote for The Two Worlds. I mentioned the fact that, at the time I saw my mother, and my sister who came afterwards, I saw Mrs. Duncan on the chair. I was just at an angle from the chair and the opening of the curtain. I could see my mother, of course, standing close to me, and I saw Mrs. Duncan clearly at the same time on the chair. She was in trance; she was unconscious.

Defense attorney: How far was the figure of your mother from the figure of Mrs. Duncan?

Albert Ormesher: The figure of my mother from me was four feet about. I was close to the curtain.

Defense attorney: Did you see anything between your mother and Mrs. Duncan, anything at all?

Albert Ormesher: No, nothing.

Defense attorney: Did you have a clear vision?

Albert Ormesher: Of the two.

Defense attorney: Of the space between the two?

Albert Ormesher: Oh, yes, distinctly.

Defense attorney: Now come to the next one.

Albert Ormesher: My mother had a conversation with me before she left me. My sister came through. She died of gangrene in the hand. She had a big hole through the palm. She said, “My hand is better now”. She said, “I am so thankful to come back to you here”. She shook hands with me. She said, “Feel how solid I am”. I did, and I felt her warm hand; it was quite warm. I had quite a long conversation with her and, before she went, she said, “I will try to write you a little note before the seance.” I put on the table a writing-pad and blacklead pencil, so that, if any message came through, she could give it me. She turned round to this table, on which was the writing pad. She held it up. She said, “It is very difficult to see”. Whether it was the want of light- She wrote it and she gave it to me; she handed it to me.

Defense attorney: Your sister did?

Albert Ormesher: It said, “My dear brother, I am very happy. Emily”. It was only short. I compared the handwriting. My sister was an authoress, so I had plenty of evidence of her writing. I brought another message I have had since I left that book but I have had another since then at another seance on November 30th, 1933, which I have got here with me. The handwriting, you say, was your sister’s?

Albert Ormesher: Oh, quite. The formation of the letters were identical.

Defense attorney: Did she sign it?

Albert Ormesher: Yes, she signed it “Emily”; that’s all.

Defense attorney: Come to the next seance, when was that?

Albert Ormesher: 4th July, 1933. That was at the same house, Warren’s, 21 Rutland Avenue. My sister came again, and she continued the conversation where she had left off at the previous seance. She said, “I am going now. I cannot stay any longer”. She went down in the usual way. She came again and she continued the con- versation where she had left off. I asked her a question, whom she had met on the other side. She said, “Of course, father is here”, and she said, “And of course, you have seen mother just before I came”. I said, “Have you seen my brother Freddy?” My brother Freddy died seven years before I was born, of course. She said, “Yes, he has gone forward into the higher spheres”. She said, “He comes down to us occasionally”, but she said, “We are all very happy here; very happy indeed”. I saw Mrs. Duncan on that occasion still in her chair.

Defense attorney: Separately apart from the figure?

Albert Ormesher: Yes, that was on 4th July. Shall I go on? Then you come to November 30th?

Albert Ormesher: 30th November, 1933. My sister came again and my brother. I had another conversation with my sister, and she told me something I was doing about two days before; where I had been, and where I was going to, and I did not know at that time that I was going to this place, but I did go. Then my brother-in-law came through. How did you identify your brother-in-law?

Albert Ormesher: By the way he passed out. He passed out suddenly in the night, and he came back the same way exactly, saying the same words, “I am so ill”. Those were the same words that he uttered when he passed out in Stockport. That was when I spoke with him and his sister.

Defense attorney: What about his voice? Was it his voice or someone else’s?

Albert Ormesher: It was his voice. He was a big man.

Defense attorney: Did you see his features?

Albert Ormesher: Quite distinctly.

Defense attorney: Was there anything distinctive about the features at all?

Albert Ormesher: It was him in his way. He was a very big bluff chap, and spoke very loud.

Defense attorney: The next one was somewhere else? A: 24th April, 1 935, at the Spiritualist Church in Wallasey. My sister came through, and Mr. Irvine came through. This is very evidential. I can tell you this story very quickly. Albert said, “I am bringing someone through to you, Mr. Ormesher, who sat at the same desk with you, and passed away very suddenly”. I said to my daughter, “Mr. Irvine”. He came through the curtain, and he said, “Well, I am pleased to see you, Mr. Ormesher, I am pleased to see you”. I said, “Well, I am pleased to see you”. He said, “I remember coming to your house and listening to the gramophone, and it was twelve o’clock when I left, and there was deep snow” it had been snowing “and I had to walk home; the buses had stopped”. I said, “Look here, Iran”- that was his name “Were you at the Church, at the funeral?” He said, “I sat in the pulpit just in front of you.” He had only just been ordained by the Bishop of Chester three days before that. His son took the service at the Church and the graveside. He said, “I stood by the side of my son in the pulpit”, and he said, “You went along to the ceremony. You were in Mr. Luscomb’s car”. I said, “Yes, I did”. Everybody heard this. He said, “You stood round my grave”. He said, “I was not there. I was by my wife.” He said, “When the service concluded” Now, this is very evidential, and I want you to listen, everybody!

Judge: Don’t make comments. Don’t make a speech. We are not at a lecture.

Albert Ormesher: He said, “When the service was over and you were leaving the grave, two ladies came along, who were not of the party, and one looked at the other and said, ‘They have been putting someone away. I will see who it is’. You stepped back from the party, and this lady threw a little bunch of violets down on my grave”. My Lord, that is exactly what happened. While I stood back like that, two ladies came along and said, “They are putting someone away”. She said, “They will only die; I will put them on the grave”.

Defense attorney: How long before 1934 did he die?

Albert Ormesher: He died about two months before that, I should think. And he told me about a bunch of flowers I had put on his grave. He said, “I thank you, Mr. Ormesher, for the white flowers that I was looking at upon my grave”. And that was so.

Defense Attorney 2: Your wife also appeared to you?

Albert Ormesher: Yes, but that was at the last seance.

Defense attorney: Just describe that. Tell my Lord and the jury.

Albert Ormesher: The last seance that was at Preston on 23rd March, 1940, and my daughter Thelma came. Albert came through. He said, “I am bringing through your daughter”. He said, “You lost your daughter very suddenly”. He said, “You called upon me on 2nd January, 1 940”. I said, “I did”. He said, “Your daughter is here and is coming through, but I am afraid she is very excited and will not be able to talk. Anyway, we will see”. She came through and stood there, childlike. By the way, I should explain, my Lord, that my daughter went out one morning on 2nd January; the snow was on the ground, and she wandered down to the river Trent. She did not come in at dinner time or tea time, and I went to the Chief Constable of Kendal. He said, “How was your daughter dressed?” I told him. He said, “I am sorry; your daughter has been drowned”.

Defense attorney: Tell us what you saw at the seance?

Albert Ormesher: Yes. She came forward, and I said, “Why did you go to the river, Thelma?” because I had forbidden her to go to the river. She said, “Sorry, Dad”. She said she was very, very happy. She said, “I am with Mother now. I am very happy indeed”.

Defense attorney: How near were you to your daughter?

Albert Ormesher: I was in the front row. Three or four feet.

Defense attorney: Did you see the features?

Albert Ormesher: She was ten years and four months when she was drowned.

Defense attorney: What about your daughter’s voice? Did you recognize the voice?

Albert Ormesher: Oh, yes.

Defense attorney: In the case of your wife, how near were you to your wife?

Albert Ormesher: The same distance. She came through next.

Defense attorney: Did you see the features clearly?

Albert Ormesher: Yes, I shook hands with her, and the voice and everything was quite clear. You could see the color of the hair and everything, as distinctly as we can each other here.

Defense attorney: Any other identification?

Albert Ormesher: After my wife left? She spoke to my daughter. She said to Stella, “I am so glad you have come. I am so glad Dad has brought you”. Then she said,, “I must go now. There are a lot waiting on the other side to come through. I must not take up very much time. I am glad to see you both here”. She said, “Good-bye”. She stepped back again and shouted to my daughter, “Take care of Dad”, meaning me. And of course she went.

Judge: She did not seem to know that your daughter was also there?

Albert Ormesher: No, she suddenly saw her. She saw me first, and then she took a glance along those who were there, saw my daughter and said, “Stella”.

Defense attorney: She did not seem to know that Stella was with her in the spirit world?

Albert Ormesher: No, Stella is my eldest daughter. Thelma, my youngest daughter, was the one that was drowned. That is my eldest daughter.

Defense attorney: I wanted to follow. It was your living daughter that she recognized?

Albert Ormesher: Yes, that is so, my Lord. She told her to take care of you?

Albert Ormesher: Yes, “Take care of Dad”. Then the next one to come through was my wife’s step-father. He was a very tall man, a very big man indeed.

Defense Attorney 2: How tall?

Albert Ormesher: I think he was 6 feet 2. He thought a lot of my daughters.

Defense attorney: How far did he come out of the cabinet?

Albert Ormesher: He came right out of the cabinet.

Defense attorney: How near to you?

Albert Ormesher: About two feet. He spoke to me. He didn’t say very much.

Defense attorney: Did you recognize his voice at all?

Albert Ormesher: Yes, I recognized it. There is no doubt about it. And all the other people I have seen at a sitting I have had between these dates.

Judge: Your father-in-law?

Albert Ormesher: No, my wife’s step-father. His name was Campion.

Defense Attorney 2: I suppose they all spoke in the English language?

Albert Ormesher: Yes, but I have heard foreign languages spoken, but it has not been to me.

Defense attorney: You have?

Albert Ormesher: Yes.

Defense attorney: What languages have you heard spoken?

Albert Ormesher: I have heard Welsh spoken to a lady friend of mine, who sat at the back, and I have heard French spoken. That was on 10th March, 1937, and at that time, I should say, at this seance, a cousin of mine who died in Australia came through. My daughter Stella was with me on the occasion she came through. She died in Ipswich, Queensland.

Defense attorney: What other languages besides French and Welsh?

Albert Ormesher: At the first seance, the Morse code. A message was coming to a friend of mine, Captain Smith of Birkenhead, in the Morse code.

Defense attorney: How did you hear it?

Albert Ormesher: Someone came through whistling it was at the first seance ‘For he’s a Jolly Good Fellow’. Smith sat next to me. He said, “I think that is for me”, and then came a message I don’t know Morse a tapping came and he was taking it in.

Defense attorney: You know the Morse code?

Albert Ormesher: No, I don’t, but Smith told me after- wards. He said, “That’s my name. That mentions the dinner we were at”. There was a big dinner in London the Prince of Wales was there, and Smith was there, being one of the heads of the Mersey Docks and Harbour Board. Smith was with him. He died about four months later As we were going home together, he told me all about this friend who came through. At that time the curtains blew out. Of course, I have told this in the account that I wrote for The Two Worlds.

Defense attorney: We only want simply what other language besides Welsh, French and the Morse code?

Albert Ormesher: That is all that I have heard.

Defense attorney: Any dialects?

Albert Ormesher: No, only Lancashire, which my sister spoke. I come from Lancashire, really, you know; but I am very satisfied that I have seen those people that I have told you about, and if I were to describe every- thing, I am afraid I should take up too much time.