Defense attorney: Which you could check up on?

John Winning: Oh, yes, on numerous occasions. My own mother has appeared and materialized and shown herself very clearly with certain idiosyncrasies in her features, and she was able on one occasion to stand quite close beside my sister, who had a similar little slant of the nose, and I was able to see the difference. I was able to note the slant of my mother’s nose we all knew about it and also compared it with my sister’s; it was on the opposite side.

Defense attorney: About how many times has your mother materialized?

John Winning: I should say at least a dozen times out of those forty.

Defense attorney: Have you had any doubt of any kind?

John Winning: None whatever, because the conversation was always about home matters and personal matters.

Defense attorney: Matters known to Mrs. Duncan?

John Winning: Not known to Mrs. Duncan, only to myself.

Defense attorney: Just tell me this, quite apart from the suggestion which is becoming ludicrous, of Mrs. Duncan doing all this: would it have been possible by any stretch of the imagination, granting the greatest possible skill and wickedness, for Mrs. Duncan to have impersonated your mother?

John Winning: Quite impossible. She is not like my mother in any way. My mother was slim, and Mrs. Duncan certainly is not.

Defense attorney: You have been good enough to tell us about your mother. Any other relation?

John Winning: Yes, my brother, who passed over into the spirit side of life many years ago, conies easily as a young man. His movements are quick and active; his speech is quick; he talks about home things and shows himself very clearly. His movements in the room are entirely different, they are different entirely, from Mrs. Duncan. His movements are quick and active; Mrs. Duncan could not move about in that way. And his speech is different.

Defense attorney: How far have either of these two figures come from the cabinet?

John Winning: They have come right out of the cabinet. My mother has taken me by the hand, and my brother has come out of the cabinet on various occasions and spoken to me.

Defense attorney: How many times did you say your brother had materialized?

John Winning: He comes almost at every seance I have. He either comes out of the cabinet, or simply I hear his voice saying, “I am here”.

Defense attorney: How many times have you seen your brother materialize?

John Winning: Out of forty times he has probably come twenty times; at least he has come oftener than my mother.

Defense attorney: What dialect does your brother speak in?

John Winning: He does not speak any. He was born at Lanark like myself. He probably speaks like myself. I hope I am not too difficult to understand.

Defense attorney: Any other association or any other person well known to you?

John Winning: Yes, my grandmother has come out repeatedly. She was an old lady; she was eighty-four when she passed over. Several of my uncles have come to me.

Defense attorney: Just take one at a time. Is there any similarity in the voice of your grand- mother and your brother, or are they quite distinctive?

John Winning: Quite distinctive.

Defense attorney: Go on. Any other close relationship? Anybody you can identify?

John Winning: My aunt Elaine, my uncle William. I could go on naming them.

Defense attorney: Go on. I cannot afford to miss any out.

John Winning: My uncle Tom was the last one that came at the end of November and spoke to me for some time.

Defense attorney: An uncle. Was there anything striking in his build?

John Winning: Yes, my uncle Willie, who came some time ago, had a little beard and moustache, which he was able to show quite clearly to me, and his build is different from Mrs. Duncan; his features are different.

Defense attorney: I think I can omit the possibility of Mrs. Duncan for the moment. Was your uncle’s voice a typical voice?

John Winning: I should say that it was different. I would not say it was the same as what we heard in life, because there are difficulties there; but it was not like Mrs. Duncan’s, and he also was able to talk about personal home things that Mrs. Duncan knows nothing about.

Defense attorney: Could you check up on the things?

John Winning: Yes.

Defense attorney: Did you check up on the things?

John Winning: I did.

Defense attorney: How many relations you seem to have seen so many we cannot go into them all have you seen?

John Winning: Probably close on a dozen. More.

Defense attorney: Have you any doubt at all about the identity of any of them?

John Winning: None whatever, by the conversation and the appearance.

Defense attorney: I think I might ask you this. It is rather a leading question. Could the greatest living actor, given the greatest possible facilities with all possible apparatus have simulated, in your view, what you have seen?

John Winning: I do not think it would be possible.

Defense attorney: Given the greatest possible skill?

John Winning: They could not simulate the information that was imparted to me by these people.

Defense attorney: You have dealt with your relations. Now your friends. Any particular friend? Does anybody come to your mind?

John Winning: Yes, on the 30th November there was a schoolmaster whom I knew, who came and announced himself not to me, but I knew him. He came out of the cabinet and said he had come to speak to his two boys, at that particular seance.

Defense attorney: Did you recognize him?

John Winning: I recognized him.

Defense attorney: You must not leave that out.

John Winning: And the two boys, one aged ten and the other aged fourteen. They recognized the schoolmaster.

Defense attorney: He was recognized by yourself and the two boys present at that time?

John Winning: And two boys.

Defense attorney: Anything else of a striking nature that you would like to tell my Lord and the jury? I think that is enough, Dr. Winning. Would you tell me this? May I have those Exhibits, 1 to 4, the photographs. Have you any experience in regard to psychic photography?

John Winning: Yes, I have been doing quite a lot of psychic photography.

Defense attorney: Is it a rather difficult subject?

John Winning: It is difficult; it is very difficult.

Defense attorney: I do not want to go into it, if I can help it. Would you just look at those photographs and tell me if either you or anybody else could say with certainty whether those are genuine psychic photographs or otherwise?

Judge: I will put them in order for you, so that I can follow and the jury follow, if they want to. There are four. No. 1 is on the top.

Defense attorney: Can you say by looking at them?

John Winning: I think I should say this, that I do not think it is possible for anyone to determine whether a psychic photograph is genuine or not, unless they know the circumstances under which the photograph has been taken. I think that is the only way it can be done.

Judge: That is a very fair answer.

Defense attorney: You do not think it is possible?

John Winning: I would not be able to unless I knew the circumstances.

Defense attorney: Looking at them alone, would you be either able to condemn or approve?

John Winning: I could do neither one nor the other.